The Bitcoin Conspiracy

The “Bitcoin conspiracy non-conspiracy” is what I would actually call it. For many people, the notion of “Bitcoin” naturally brings to their mind either the toy of a lame capitalist-geek craze, the conspiracy theorist’s fringe currency, or the drug-addled Silk Road trader.

However, I am none of these, and I still became interested in this new financial movement. My interest was actually initially piqued by the media attention that I saw that Bitcoin received versus the real definition and scope of Bitcoin itself. I wasn’t some drug addict looking for the Silk Road to get my fix, nor was I some capitalist Joe looking to make a quick buck off of future people’s misfortune (as a Ponzi scheme would work). I just noticed that it was actually being slandered on live TV.

The time that I initially found out about Bitcoin, it was because the news was reporting on the Silk Road. Bitcoin supposedly funded the Silk Road, and so I had written it off as a fad for the shady side of the Internet. Then, I forgot about it.

A couple years later is when I started to hear it in the news again, but it was being compared to a “bubble” and a “Ponzi scheme.” Looking into it, I found that it was actually neither. Also, the media claimed that it was mostly for drug dealers and other outcasts of society. I quickly learned, however, that trade for legal items was actually a greater percentage than trade for illicit goods. So, how do I know it was unjustly vilified?

Let me explain.

Here is a graph showing the price of Bitcoin in US dollars.

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As you can see, it had an exponential spike early on, and is now encountering another such exponential spike.

But, “What is the price of Bitcoin based on,” you might ask? Well, it is based on the market capitalization of the commodity. When more dollars are “in the system,” the price naturally goes up. This happens because the number of Bitcoin in existence is not rising by very much at all, and will hit a limit of 21 million in about the year 2140.  Combine the limited supply with the amount of dollars being used to buy the commodity, and you get a sharp spike as more people buy into it.

Many people then claim that it is due to speculation, and that it is a bubble about to pop. They might then point to “tulip mania” in the 1630’s as a comparison to Bitcoin. This, in my mind, is the silliest objection you could possibly leverage against Bitcoin.

Tulip mania was really only about the trading price of rare tulips for specific types of goods. There are many theories as to why the crash in price happened, but it is generally agreed upon that a crash did happen. However, tulip mania differs from Bitcoin in a very obvious way: Bitcoin is a payment system as well as a commodity.

Bitcoin is not just tulips. It’s not like you’re only trading back and forth with Bitcoin by handing it to someone in person (like they were doing with the tulips); this thing works like it’s own payment system. There is no middleman, and no governing body overseeing the transactions between people.

I can send you Bitcoin with just my phone and yours, with no one like PayPal, Chase, or Citi overseeing the transaction. This level of virtual payment abstraction is something new to currency as a whole. Never before have we not only seen a new commodity, but a commodity with a never-before-seen payment system.

Bitcoin is revolutionary. It’s like cash, for the Internet. This thing is so staggeringly mind-blowing that it even taxes the ability of the mind to comprehend it. This isn’t some tulip people pick up off the ground and trade directly for pigs or loaves of bread; this is something that replaces the whole bartering system entirely. Not only does it facilitate trade, it is the commodity you are trading with as well.

Therefore, comparing it to a “bubble,” or anything we’ve seen in the past, is incredibly naïve.

Then there’s the “Ponzi scheme” objection. Well, that can be easily dismissed because a “Ponzi scheme” requires an investment with a supposedly “guaranteed” return. The people getting their investment from future investors is what fuels this “guaranteed” investment… until the last inventors don’t get anything and the ones at the top get it all. A Ponzi scheme, therefore, is a scam.

There is no denying it; the ones who initially became interested in Bitcoin when it was real cheap have millions of dollars worth of it now. However, a Ponzi scheme is only a shady promised return on investment, whereas Bitcoin is a complete commodity/financial system package. Again, there is no comparison. Sure, people made money by adopting the payment system early on, but that in no way can be compared to a Ponzi scheme.

A Ponzi scheme isn’t something that is actually useful after everyone (including the last one getting into it) has invested. Bitcoin, on the other hand, continues to be a useful facilitator of trade even after the last Bitcoin is snatched up out of the cryptographic mine tunnel. The last investor in Bitcoin is still going to be able to buy things with his Bitcoin that he bought with USD at a certain price. Therefore, comparing Bitcoin to a Ponzi scheme seems incredibly naïve.

So then, what is fueling the rise in price of Bitcoin if it isn’t a Ponzi scheme, a trading bubble, or a fringe group of individuals interested in purchasing shady items off the Internet? Well, it’s that as interest in the currency has risen, more people are buying Bitcoin so that they can use the payment system. Combine that with the fact that you also have a fixed supply of Bitcoin, and it becomes increasingly clear: Bitcoin has no comparison in history.

How can we know for certain that Bitcoin is gaining in popularity and widespread usage? I can point to the growing list of sites that accept Bitcoin, the restaurants that have started implementing it, or the growing search interest as a whole. That might convince you that more people are accepting it for payment, but that wouldn’t convince you that it is necessarily gaining in popularity.

Fortunately, it just so happens that we have a tool for measuring the popularity of something on the Internet: Google Trends. Let’s see what Google Trends has to say about the search “buy Bitcoin.”

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When overlaid on top of the price of Bitcoin, we find that there is an obvious correlation. What’s going on here?

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It seems that when interest in the currency spikes, there is a spike in price. It is such a beautiful correlation, that there must be a reason for it. My guess? More people using the system equals more Bitcoin that has to be bought with dollars, and that equals a higher price of Bitcoin.

When interest in the system dropped, people sold Bitcoin and the price went back down. When people became more interested, the price went up. Can this rise in price just be another fad, though?

Yeah, that is the million-dollar question.

If Bitcoin were a “fad,” then that would mean that widespread adoption of the system would never happen. It would die off in usage, and eventually become something you couldn’t use to trade for anything. But what would make Bitcoin fall in popularity?

It’s better than any currency in existence. It’s better than the dollar, the euro, PayPal, Visa, MasterCard, or anything else you could throw at it. The programming behind it is open source, anybody can see how it works, and absolutely no one could cheat the system. It’s a cryptographic masterpiece made by an anonymous person named “Satoshi Nakamoto,” who probably remained hidden because he feared for his life (no, really… stay tuned for that bit of the story).

So, here we have this currency that is qualitatively better than anything in existence, and the mainstream media is trying to vilify it. What could the possible motive for that be? Well, it turns out that if you can make something unpopular, you can kill it.

And that’s Bitcoin’s only weakness. What are the odds?

That got me thinking… there could actually be a Bitcoin conspiracy happening right now, and no one would be aware of it. The mainstream media comes off as ignorant fools to the people in the know, whereas they come off as knowledgeable and trustworthy to the regular viewers of such filth.

As long as the media vilifies the supporters of the currency as people who just want to support illegal drug trade, illegal porn, terrorism, and the like, then the brainwashed are just subconsciously conditioned to view Bitcoin supporters as members of that same vilified group.

The people-in-the-know can point out the facts all they want, but the sheeple won’t listen to reason when their favorite talking heads claim that the people who are trying to get you into Bitcoin are all crooks.

Think about it. It’s beautiful. The people that actually know what Bitcoin represents and see that it is the next greatest thing to happen to society are either painted as people that are trying to get people into Bitcoin to make a quick buck (Ponzi scheme), as people that are too naïve to see that it is a bubble, or as people trying to prop up something that lets them get their heroin.

Hacking attacks on Bitcoin exchanges are used to destabilize trust in something that literally doesn’t rely on the exchange that was hacked in the slightest. You can hack an exchange, but that isn’t the same as hacking Bitcoin. The Bitcoin payment system is so beautiful in its implementation of cryptography that it would take many, many times the computing power of the world’s largest supercomputer to crack.

Oh, and when I say “many, many” times, I mean more like running that supercomputer for trillions of trillions of years, and only coming close cracking it. Maybe it’ll get lucky and crack it in 1 trillion less years than that… who knows?

The point is, hackers can’t hack it, banks can’t control it, and the government can’t just print more of it as it sees fit. How could something like that, combined with a revolutionary payment system, ever lose popularity?

Oh, yeah… that’s right, if the news were to manipulate the gullible then of course interest in Bitcoin could fall. Doesn’t that make you wonder why they are that ignorant about Bitcoin? Don’t you think the talking heads research the topic in-depth before making a news story about it? Why are they all so misinformed?

That got me thinking… I’d post about it in a conspiracy forum and see how it fares. It’s a conspiracy, right? What if the media and government are in on it, and Bitcoin is being targeted by propaganda?

I went to one of the most popular conspiracy forums I found (and it had even been mentioned in the mainstream news): Godlike Productions. If you go to godlikeproductions.com, you’ll find a site where people can post anonymously about any topic. You don’t need to register, or sign up for anything, and it is supposedly touted as a free speech website.

You can only find the best conspiracy theories if you go somewhere where it is completely open to everybody, right? Well, Godlike Production and conspiracy theories go hand-in-hand, so I thought I’d make a topic on the forum about my Bitcoin conspiracy idea.

However, I noticed that almost no one was mentioning Bitcoin on the forum. In all the anonymous posts on the forum, not one person was talking about Bitcoin within the past month when the skyrocket in price happened… despite the exponential increase in interest shown in Google Trends.

That got me digging. I soon found that people were claiming that the word “Bitcoin” was being censored on that site, and that no forum administrators cared to comment on why it was happening. You would have to type something obfuscated like “B. I. T. C. 0. I. N.” or else that word would get redacted to the word “illegal.”

Hold on a second. The mainstream news is attacking Bitcoin, and the conspiracy sites are censoring Bitcoin? What?!? Aren’t they supposed to be polar opposites?

So, I decided to post a new topic on there myself, and see how it went. I went to Godlike Productions, and posted the following without logging in (or as an “anonymous coward,” as that site likes to describe them):

B.    I.    T.    C.    0.    I.    N.

You can’t even type it in a thread without the post getting denied or words being redacted.

If you look outside this site, you’ll find news stories about it have been increasing, but not on this site.

If you go to Google trends and search for “buy _______”, you’ll find interest has been increasing. My question is why is interest in it on this site not only almost nonexistent, but not even close to the exponential interest shown in the Google trends graph?

With all this bank crap going on, and the properties of this new system to alleviate the most hardcore-prepper’s concerns, why isn’t this a topic for this site?

Make you wonder, doesn’t it?

I got one reply. A user said “bullshit,” and that was it. I promptly got banned from site. I couldn’t get a screenshot of the thread before it was deleted, but I have this message that notifies me that it was removed

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I then tried to post using my 3G instead of my Wi-Fi, but I guess there was a cookie stored in my browser. So, it banned me for using the computer that was previously banned using another IP, and then promptly logged that IP address as being banned as well so that I couldn’t go post from my PC.

Wow.

So, hold on. Isn’t Godlike Productions supposed to be a safe haven for conspiracy theorists to discuss their crazy conspiracies without censorship?

Why was Bitcoin censored, then? Why is gold the only thing people are allowed to post about when mentioning saving up for the great coming apocalypse?

Check this out: most of the users of Godlike Productions are people that wouldn’t believe the mainstream media. They get most of their “news” from the forum site. If the non-conspiracy theorists are being force-fed propaganda, and the conspiracy theorists are being blinded to Bitcoin, then that results in a concerted effort to undermine the rising popularity of Bitcoin. And it succeeds.

This freaked me out. What are the chances that the same topic the mainstream news is woefully ignorant of is also a topic that gets censored from a conspiracy theorist website?

It seems that the idea of Bitcoin then doesn’t have a home anywhere, right?

That’s why I call it the “Bitcoin non-conspiracy conspiracy.” It’s a conspiracy that conspiracy theorists don’t even hear about because the websites that they rely on to get their conspiracy news is likely censored by the same people behind the censorship of the mainstream media.

This freakin’ blew my mind.

I decided that since I couldn’t post this story in a conspiracy forum and have it accepted, nor could I go to the mainstream media to get it noticed, I was going to have to create a blog and post it solo.

Hopefully you find this as intriguing as I have.

I encourage you, fellow Internet peoples, to search for the truth, and never give up until it’s found out. Also, go to Godlike Productions (at godlikeproductions.com), and post about Bitcoin. Maybe if enough of us go to that website and post about it, it might break through the censorship and ignorance.

Also, I now understand quite clearly why Satoshi Nakamoto (the creator of Bitcoin) decided to remain anonymous. It is amazing what power is being thrown behind discrediting such a revolutionary payment system.

Like this page, spread the news far and wide, and help bring an end to this corrupt manipulation by whoever is controlling both groups of people.

Do I think there is really a Bitcoin conspiracy? Not necessarily. If it continues to fail to be brought up on conspiracy theorist’s websites, then I would just be hard-pressed to believe otherwise. I am always open to feedback, and if you have potential rebuttals that take all of this post into account, then I might be happy to change my mind.

It’s either change my mind on this, or remain forever wary that there is something spooky going on with the Internets. Just do a search for “Bitcoin conspiracy.” You’ll find that there is almost no talk about this anywhere.

Oh, and if I end up “suicided,” then my friends will all know the truth. Haha… Just kidding. ;)

Peace.

25 thoughts on “The Bitcoin Conspiracy

  1. FreddyFender (@marquo99)

    I was fortunate to discover Bitcoin in April 2010, long before we gave thought to pressures that would exert themselves against the centuries-old stance of financial dictum. Conspiracies are the placards of the internet age. They scream messages with amplified voices designed around fears, distrust, and ALL CAPS! I think that for the holders of the placards and the makers of the placards, this is a money machine – nothing more. All the time we have been arguing with the madness they present daily, we have frazzled our psyche and lined their pockets. But Bitcoin offends their pockets and overwhelms their psyche. The who behind the conspiracy sites and MSM that they decry appears lockstep and terrified. Or I could be completely wrong… “Mashed Potato!”

    Reply
  2. Jimmy Kimmel

    no, the reason bitcoin threads are banned on that site is because the admin wants people to not talk about the coin because he/she/they love it. So when you try to post in there saying the coin is a big ponzi scheme/conspiracy, they don’t want a bar of it and censor you.

    Reply
    1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

      @Jimmy Kimmel:

      That could be true. However, I think that is unlikely. Why would I say that?

      Just do a search for “Bitcoin” on Godlike Productions. You’ll see that there are hardly any pro-Bitcoin threads. You don’t see anyone giving a full argument on why Bitcoin is great on there, like you see on Reddit/Bitcoin or bitcointalk.org

      That, combined with the exponential rise in interest in Bitcoin versus the 31 posts over a 6-month period is enough to make me doubt that the intentions of the censorship is to help Bitcoin.

      Reply
  3. Robert Nielsen

    Its strange that you refer to those who point out the obvious fact that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme and bubble as naive. I would say it is the other way around. The bitcoin bubble looks very similar to the dotcom bubble of the 90s. Both are started by advances in technology that causes people to be over optimistic and think that the old rules don’t apply. After which specualtion and irrational exuberance take over driving the price into unsustainable levels. You argue that this is not the case as bitcoins have a use, but few people are using them, its mostly being hoarded.

    It is also a ponzi scheme as although the final victims are left with a product, so are all victims of ponzi schemes. The point is that the product has a greatly reduced price and is near valueless. As few want to use a product with no value, few shops will accept bitcoins once the price collapses.

    Finally I would like you to look at the spectacular nose dive the price is going through as I write this as definite proof that bitcoins are a bubble which have now burst.

    Reply
    1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

      You’re only rebuttal to my rebuttal about Bitcoin being a bubble is that while they might have a use, they aren’t being used. I believe that could be naive in light of the increasing number of business accepting Bitcoin as payment. It is growing in usefulness regardless of the USD price. Therefore, it can’t be compared to a “tulip mania” bubble, as the tulip’s usefulness followed its decline in price. You also can’t prove your assertion that the majority are only holding Bitcoin and not spending. Expect spending to go up and up with more businesses accepting it as payment.

      Also, your rebuttal to my thoughts on why it isn’t a Ponzi scheme is essentially, “Yes, they still have Bitcoin to use, but they no longer have value.”

      Again, regardless of the USD price, with more and more merchants accepting Bitcoin for payment (and the Bitcoin price being based on the exchange rate) the purchasing value for Bitcoin is steadily rising independently of the USD price. Bitcoin’s value is not just the current USD price… It’s also the value of the payment system as a whole.

      With regards to the recent price drop… Great. Do you see merchants abandoning accepting Bitcoin as payment? Their prices are just automatically adjusted to follow the USD trading price, so regardless of the price drop they will just end up getting more Bitcoin for the same goods. Let me buy up some Bitcoin while its cheaper. Works for me.

      Reply
      1. Robert Nielsen

        You keep insisting that merchants are using bitcoins and that is the basis for its strength. You claim they will stick by it despite the price drop. My question is what makes you think that? I have heard of a few internet examples of bitcoins being used, but those are rare exceptions that gain attention due to their novelty. Can you give practical real life examples of it being used? Also I’m willing to wager with you that this is the end of bitcoin and its price will keep dropping.

        Reply
        1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

          https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade

          This list even has the illegal sites removed from it. So, there you go.

          You want to see how the size of that list is increasing despite the price drop? Well, it’s a wiki, so you can view the history of that page here: https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Trade&action=history

          You’ll notice a couple additions to the list were made today, even.

          I didn’t just give you a couple real-world examples… I gave you hundreds and growing.

          I can also go to bitspend.net and buy a new computer at newegg.com with Bitcoin. You can buy anything on the Internet from any site you want using bitspend.net.

          Did all these merchants stop accepting Bitcoin when the price dropped before? Not at all. So, I still think your original rebuttal is unfounded.

          Reply
          1. Robert Nielsen

            Well most of those sites are either currency converters or dealing with niche markets. So not quite market dominance. Of course the plunge in prices took place over such a short time that there will naturally be a delay before merchants react and the page is updated. I still stand by my view that bitcoins are being hoarded and few are actually being spent due to hyperdeflation. After all only a fool would have spent bitcoins this week when they were constantly rising in value. Due to the current volatility, few will spend it as its hard to know what they’re worth.

            Reply
            1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

              You must be purposefully overlooking certain categories on that list then. I see plenty of sites for non-niche markets, with the list growing every day.

              Also, you never acknowledged the fact that bitspend.net lets you buy anything from any website with Bitcoin.

              Also, you failed to explain why everyone will start ditching Bitcoin as a payment system because the price went back down to last week’s price (oh, horror!).

              Also, you forget that you don’t need to hoard them or spend them when they’re gaining in value. If you wanted to buy something with Bitcoin, then use a little more USD than necessary to get the Bitcoin to buy it, and you’ll have a little Bitcoin left over after your purchase. That solves the problem of not wanting to spend Bitcoin that you bought for a ridiculously cheap price.

              Also, it’s not hard to know what they’re worth in USD. Are you kidding me? The trading price is plastered across the Internets.

              Expect more and more businesses to start accepting Bitcoin as has been happening consistently this entire time. Expect the drop in price to not affect the influx of businesses, as a price drop like that hasn’t affected them before.

              Here’s a simple inductive argument for you:
              All price drops in the past have not affected the number of businesses coming to Bitcoin.
              Therefore, this drop in price won’t affect the number of businesses coming to Bitcoin.

              Reply
              1. Robert Nielsen

                For a currency to work it must have stability and certainty. If prices are constantly changing, then it is not possible to make accurate economic decisions. This is the case under hyperinflation and under hyperdeflation which bitcoin is experiencing. The price is too volatile for anyone to act with certainty and as a result few people are spending.

                You compare the current price with last weeks as if to suggest little has changed. The point is that no one is certain where the price will go next or if it will hold. This shows how volatile and unstable the currency is, tow characteristics you do not want for a currency. People will not want to hold a currency that can lose half its value in a matter of hours.

                The value is extremely unclear and if you know it please tell me. I checked the first page of a google search for “bitcoin price converter” and got $93.5, $149.45, and $123.4. They’ll probably have changed again by the time you see them. And this is happening while main bitcoin trading has been suspended.

                Unfortunately past performance is not always a reliable guide to future performance. Bitcoin has never reached such heights before so a fall from here will probably be fatal.

                Reply
                1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

                  Give it time. Price volatility can’t last forever. If it were to crash like you are predicting, then we’ll have a pretty stable price, now won’t we?

                  If it doesn’t crash, then it will find an equilibrium eventually.

                  Also, the statistics on bitspend.net show that regardless of the price volatility, people are still purchasing things with Bitcoin. Therefore, your point is contradicted by facts.

                  Also, even if it were to crash, it won’t be fatal because of what I said before: I can always buy Bitcoin at whatever the price is and purchase things with it using bitspend.net. Even if the price were $0.02 per Bitcoin, it is still a useful facilitator of trade.

                  Reply
                  1. Robert Nielsen

                    Yes it will have an equilibrium but be worthless. You will still be able to buy things, but what can you buy for 2 cents? Trade will theoretically still be possible, but practically unheard of. A currency is only useful if it is used. Bitcoin will not be used if it has a rising price (as deflation means it makes more sense to wait) or if it has a falling price (as this erodes purchasing power and people will get out as fast as they can).

                    Can you provide data on bitspend? I would be very interested in seeing how much bitcoins are actually used rather than just speculated with.

                    Reply
                    1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

                      Dude… You’re either not understanding what I’m saying, or you’re being purposefully dense.

                      If the price were to fall to $0.02, then if I wanted to buy a computer on newegg.com with Bitcoin, I’d just need to buy 100,000 Bitcoin at a price of $2000, and I can get a nice computer and have some Bitcoin left over.

                      Also, what’s funny is you say a currency that is falling in value discourages purchasing things, but the USD has that problem as we speak.

                      Also, deflationary currency doesn’t discourage spending, because regardless of the USD price, you’re still going to want/need to buy things.

    2. Rod

      “It is also a ponzi scheme as although the final victims are left with a product, so are all victims of ponzi schemes. The point is that the product has a greatly reduced price and is near valueless. As few want to use a product with no value, few shops will accept bitcoins once the price collapses.”

      What are you talking about?

      First, how many ponzi schemes do you know of where some “product” is left in the victim’s hands? Are you confusing a ponzi with a pyramid scheme, perhaps? Ironically, even that fails to describe Bitcoin since no user of the currency has to keep bringing in new people in the hopes of a some “profit”… it’s perfectly valid to use the currency to buy goods and services and never make a dime doing so!

      Next, you’re conflating “price” and “value” here, and the fact is, Bitcoin’s value is almost completely independent of it’s price. It doesn’t matter if bitcoins are $0.01 each or $100,000 each, at either extreme I can acquire enough to purchase either a pack of bubble gum or a house, and send that money, paid-in-full (since there’s no chargebacks, and a bitcoin is a commodity that is not someone else’s debt) at the speed of the internet and with the utmost simplicity. And pseudononymously to boot.

      Finally, you do realize that services exist that allow websites and stores to accept bitcoins, and have USD deposited right into their bank accounts, right? Why in the world would WordPress care what the *price* of a bitcoin was, so long as the same USD amount gets put into their account? The merchants accepting bitcoin will do so as long as their continue to be people holding them and spending them, and considering every seller of bitcoins must find a buyer, there will ALWAYS be people with them, looking to do something with them.

      If you don’t care for bitcoins, great! It’s a completely voluntary system, and you can stay as far away from it as you like! But to toss out such weak arguments against it is really a waste of time. Better to just let us geeks and technophiles play with our new world-changing toy until it crashes and burns, so you can tell us “I told you so,” right? Might not want to do so right away though, lest you come off looking as silly as the folks cackling that back when it fell to $2, before it’s current rise (if *only* it would ever drop back that low again!)

      Reply
      1. Robert Nielsen

        Were the price of bitcoins to crash (which they will/are) bitcoins will be useless. You say people will still be able to use bitcoins but then in you’re next paragragh you show why this is not the case. People price based on dollar amounts. Hence if/when bitcoins collapse, prices will be converted so that you may still have 10 bitcoins but be unable to buy much.

        Why do I care about bitcoins? Well, I’m an economics student so I find it a fascinating case study. It shows us a lot of important issues about monetary policy and how currencies work. Will the price reach $2? Eventually probably yes. However it will not drop to that in one go, there will be temporary rallies along the way. However, the overall trend will be downward.

        Reply
        1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

          If the price were to drop down to a really low amount, you’d still be able to use Bitcoin just the same.

          Go out, buy some Bitcoin at the cheap price, and you’ll still be able to purchase anything on any website using bitspend.net with them.

          You’ll be able to get more Bitcoin for your USD, but the exchange rate will be lower. You’ll just have to buy more Bitcoin to get the same goods, but it won’t actually cost you more USD than if you bought it with dollars.

          You’re not making any sense. The utility afforded by Bitcoin is not affected by its price in the slightest. If it dropped to $0.02, then I’d just have to go out and buy 10,000 of them to purchase a computer on newegg.com. Same utility, different numbers… Bitcoin therefore is not affected.

          Reply
            1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

              Who says it’s sinking?

              The price going back down to $0.02 doesn’t mean that it’s sunk, as it is still a useful facilitator of trade over the Internet.

              I’m not necessarily “buying into” it, but I am rather *using* it. Get it? Using it… like a tool in a toolbox.

              If I need to use Bitcoin to purchase something, I can get Bitcoin real cheap at the current price and buy something with it. Therefore, even if the price goes down, it still has value as a virtual payment system.

              Reply
  4. Bitcoins

    Have you considered submitting your post to Reddit?

    I’m the author of this thread and my experiences have been similar to yours:

    http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-The-Bitcoin-Saga-has-revealed-Conspiracy-Theorists-to-be-worse-than-Liberals?page=1

    When I attempted to post a topic regarding bitcoins in godlikeproductions, I was instantly banned. So, you’re not alone. After I was banned from GLP (Which is allegedly run by the Tavistock Institute, if you use the word ‘tavistock’, you are also banned), I then went to lunaticoutpost, which is known for allowing more free speech, since it is run by normal tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist consumers rather than a psychology institute. However, I was also disappointed with LunaticOutpost since all the material from that site is basically a marginally downstream and semi-alternate version of what you see on GLP. It’s basically just an aggregation of news from various conspiracy theory sources, such as infowars, etc.

    This has lead me to believe that sources for these conspiracy theories have vested interests against Bitcoins, not just Godlikeproductions, in particular.

    I suspect that a lot of this paranoia has to do with the fact that these conspiracy theorists want to go back to a Gold Standard, since many of them tend to be ‘crypto-conservatives’. Bitcoin presents a danger to both conservative and liberal ideologies, because it is irreversible and has the potential to destroy the modern entire socio-economic and political paradigm, altogether. Conservatives as well as Liberals are afraid of this.

    However, I have also seen a bright side among some conspiracy theorists. I would say that there are 2 main wings of ‘conspiracy theorists’. One is the alex jones/karl denninger libertarian wing, and the other is the Max Keiser Anti-Liberal wing. Basically, both wings hate the modern liberal capitalist system, only the former wants to go back to the old conservative classical liberal system. They are basically living in another world. Then, you have the Keiser wing. Keiser is not a conservative, but he is not a ‘liberal’ either, he is just an ‘anti-liberal’, so his position is more genuine. People in the Keiser Wing are actually seeking out a genuine alternative to the modern system. He has a relationship with Alex Jones as a result of both of them liking Gold and detesting the current system.
    Basically the former type of GoldBug (AJ, etc), is the real ‘GoldBug’, as they literally worship the ‘barbaric relic’. Whereas the later-type of GoldBug (Keiser) was never a real ‘Gold Bug’. They were just looking for an alternative system that had not yet existed until Bitcoin, P2P, etc

    Reply
  5. Robert Nielsen

    “Also, deflationary currency doesn’t discourage spending, because regardless of the USD price, you’re still going to want/need to buy things.”

    Spending will not drop to zero, but it will be much lower than otherwise. If this was replicated economy wide, there would be very unemployment, but not 100%. Of course there are necessities (like food) that require spending no matter what. However, everything that can be put off will be.

    “If the price were to fall to $0.02, then if I wanted to buy a computer on newegg.com with Bitcoin, I’d just need to buy 100,000 Bitcoin at a price of $2000, and I can get a nice computer and have some Bitcoin left over.”

    As supply is fixed, demand is the main determinant of price. Hence if the price was $0.02 then demand would be tiny. If demand is tiny, there is little point in websites like bitspend operating or businesses accepting bitcoin. A currency requires critical mass and therefore a price drop will mean it lacks this and cannot function. As supply is fixed, the price of bitcoins is a good indicator of the demand for them. Therefore a price collapse should worry you.

    Reply
    1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

      Oh, the horror. The first currency of its kind that encourages saving? What?!? ;-P

      So, let me get this straight. When gold was used as currency, people only hoarded it and the economy went to crap? Am I understanding you right? Cause gold would be the only other deflationary currency I can think of. Gold didn’t work for countless centuries? I’m not really following you.

      As a fixed supply, the amount of dollars used to purchase Bitcoin minus the dollars received for selling Bitcoin divided by the total number of Bitcoin is the price of a Bitcoin relative to the USD. As people sell their Bitcoin to make some money when the price is high, the trading price naturally goes down. When people buy more when the price is low, then the price goes back up.

      This is a natural part of an open market. Does the price going down mean that everyone is giving up on Bitcoin? No, actually, it most likely (from the ridiculously large transactions that were going on when the price dropped, cause remember, you can view all Bitcoin transactions as they happen) means that there were people holding a lot of Bitcoin and wanted to cash out and make some money.

      For every person just trying to make a quick buck by trading, there’s a guy getting into Bitcoin for the principle of it. That guy’s not going to sell just because the price goes down. Most people have seen these price drops before, and they are having less and less of an effect on the weak hands in the market. People are beginning to realize that the only reason Bitcoin would collapse is if everyone believed that it would become worthless.

      People are starting to realize that Bitcoin, being the revolutionary currency that it is, has immense value apart from the USD price. More businesses are starting to accept it, more people are buying it as more people learn about it, and so we’ve already hit that “critical mass” where the price is no longer based on pure speculation.

      Reply
      1. Robert Nielsen

        Of course there’s nothing wrong with encouraging saving. However, if this is taken to an extreme there is trouble. When gold was deflationary, yes the economy did preform poorly. This was particularly the case during the Great Depression which is why countries left the Gold Standard. However, there were occasional gold discovery’s to increase the supply and it could be imported from abroad. However, bitcoin is an extreme version of the gold standard, so the problems become greatly magnified.

        “For every person just trying to make a quick buck by trading, there’s a guy getting into Bitcoin for the principle of it.”
        Well seeing as the principle has been unchanged while media attention has hugely increased we can estimate the number of either investor. If the market was dominated by principled investors than the recent media flurry would have had little effect. If the market was dominated by speculators then the recent media frenzy would cause the price to multiply. Which happened?

        Of course the 2nd one is the answer. This implies that were speculators to leave and only principled investors remain, then the price will drop below $30. Of course this is a rough estimate.

        “Most people have seen these price drops before”

        Drops of 50% in a matter of hours? Wiping out thousands of dollars?

        “People are starting to realize that Bitcoin, being the revolutionary currency that it is, has immense value apart from the USD price.”

        I’m getting flashbacks to 2008 when the government claimed the fundamentals of the economy were fine.

        Reply
        1. bitcoin0conspiracy Post author

          There are so many different theories on why the Great Depression happened, and none of them really match up well with Bitcoin. Please, let me know if you can draw a solid correlation.

          Please, also keep in mind that people will still want to buy smartphones, computers, and other amenities. How long are you going to go without upgrading your computer? It’s simple really… the prices for things might go down, but people will still be buying them. I believe everyone would love a deflationary currency. Who doesn’t want their purchasing power to continue to grow?

          If the speculators leave, and only principled investors remain, and people continue to find out about Bitcoin and get into it, then the market cap will only continue to rise… causing the price to go up.

          And yes, this sort of price drop happened before, and we rebounded. You don’t remember the great crash of 2011? Everyone was exclaiming that Bitcoin was dead, but it wasn’t… now, was it?

          Reply
  6. Pingback: The Bitcoin Bubble Has Burst | Robert Nielsen

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